Interesting piece overall, as with everything you write -- been a big fan for almost 20 years. But one important footnote. Jewish Voice for Peace is the fringe of the fringe of the fringe. Saying that "some" Jews support them is like saying that some African American people support Candace Owens; sure, you can find a few; but to use the notion that groups like that exist (and have "some" -- a tiny number of very loud and media savvy -- supporters) to pretend that banning Zionists is not the same as banning Jews is not a respectable opinion. And, while I know this isn't your intent or your position, presenting that opinion as within acceptable discourse puts in danger the vast majority of us Jews who dare to recognize that we -- like all peoples, including the Palestinians, if they would just stop slaughtering us and start accepting the state they've been offered over and over -- have a right to self determination somewhere on this planet. Sorry for the rant, but didn't want to not have it addressed.
I totally agree that many anti-Zionists are antisemitic, and many antisemites are anti-Zionist. But strictly as a logical matter, one does not entail the other.
I understand and appreciate the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of antisemitism. And as a practical matter, I understand why my fellow supporters of Israel might want to do as much as possible to conflate antisemitism and anti-Zionism. The threat posed by antisemitism is greater than any "danger" that might arguably flow from conflation of antisemitism and anti-Zionism.
But just between us, and as an intellectual rather than political matter, if you look at a dictionary definition of "antisemitism," which defines it as "hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people," that's not the same as anti-Zionism, which the dictionary defines as "opposition to the establishment or support of the state of Israel." They're analytically distinct concepts.
Again, don't get me wrong; I agree that the number of anti-Zionist Jews is vastly outnumbered by the number of Zionist Jews. But there are other anti-Zionist Jews out there; Jewish Voice for People is just one example.
A more interesting example are the anti-Zionist sects among Haredi Jews (e.g., the Satmars). These are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews who oppose the State of Israel (and some of them don't even recognize Israel). I suppose one could argue that the Haredim aren't "real Jews." But the Haredim could—and, from what I understand, often do—just as easily argue that Reform Jews aren't "real Jews."
I listened to this hour-and-a-half-long debate on the proposition "Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism." I felt that the side against the motion was more persuasive (and so did the audience attending in person, by a substantial margin).
Much more involved topic than can be covered in a comment thread, but while I agree that anti-Zionism and antisemitism are analytically distinct concepts (i.e., being anti-Zionist -- opposing the right of Jews to self-determination anywhere on the planet -- is not necessarily antisemitic), the overlap in the Venn diagram is very tight (at least as far as anti-Zionists being in the antisemite circle; there are plenty of antisemites who are big Zionists; a topic for a different thread).
IMHO there are very very very few exceptions to the general rule that an anti-Zionist is an antisemite: 1) true John Lennon style imagine there's no country people -- as long as they don't believe Israel should be the first state to disappear on the path to this utopia; 2) as you note, certain (far from all) sects of Haredim (who are most certainly Jews) who have long held -- if severely misguided -- religious views that oppose Jewish sovereignty prior to the appearance of the messiah, and who don't act as props for those who seek to slaughter Jews (i.e., Satmars qualify; neturei karta very much do not); and 3) Palestinians who have suffered directly from the conflict can oppose the existence of Israel without necessarily being antisemitic (though it often comes with a hefty dose of old fashioned antisemitism as well); that said, that position has led to nothing but blood and tears for their people and mine for generations, and so it is very much in their people's interest to accept one of the many offers of statehood that the UN and Israel have made over the past 75 years.
That's it, that's the 3; if someone can describe to me another rationale for opposing the right to self-determination for Jews, and only Jews, that does not boil down to antisemitism, I'm open to hearing it; but having studied and lived this for many decades, I've never heard another example persuasively articulated; those 3 represent a miniscule portion of the overall anti-zionist movement, which is not only filled with antisemites but it is filled with antisemites who have made their appetite for Jewish slaughter quite clear over the last 4.5 months. And JVP does not come close to fitting in any one of those 3 boxes.
Re the debate you linked to, just as I wouldn't recommend watching a debate involving David Duke regarding whether his brand of racism is actually racist, I wouldn't recommend watching Mehdi Hassan describe why his brand of antisemitism isn't actually antisemitic ... but that's just me.
Punchline: yes, there is plenty of room for nuance here, but no, JVP's internalized antisemitism should not be used as cover for others' antisemitism, which is what I believe you did in this post.
For some insights into the ABA's real world impact, check out George Shepherd's piece on the origins of the standards, in "No African-American Lawyers Allowed: The Inefficient Racism of the ABA's Accreditation of Law Schools". https://www.jstor.org/stable/42893789
Interesting piece overall, as with everything you write -- been a big fan for almost 20 years. But one important footnote. Jewish Voice for Peace is the fringe of the fringe of the fringe. Saying that "some" Jews support them is like saying that some African American people support Candace Owens; sure, you can find a few; but to use the notion that groups like that exist (and have "some" -- a tiny number of very loud and media savvy -- supporters) to pretend that banning Zionists is not the same as banning Jews is not a respectable opinion. And, while I know this isn't your intent or your position, presenting that opinion as within acceptable discourse puts in danger the vast majority of us Jews who dare to recognize that we -- like all peoples, including the Palestinians, if they would just stop slaughtering us and start accepting the state they've been offered over and over -- have a right to self determination somewhere on this planet. Sorry for the rant, but didn't want to not have it addressed.
I totally agree that many anti-Zionists are antisemitic, and many antisemites are anti-Zionist. But strictly as a logical matter, one does not entail the other.
I understand and appreciate the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of antisemitism. And as a practical matter, I understand why my fellow supporters of Israel might want to do as much as possible to conflate antisemitism and anti-Zionism. The threat posed by antisemitism is greater than any "danger" that might arguably flow from conflation of antisemitism and anti-Zionism.
But just between us, and as an intellectual rather than political matter, if you look at a dictionary definition of "antisemitism," which defines it as "hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people," that's not the same as anti-Zionism, which the dictionary defines as "opposition to the establishment or support of the state of Israel." They're analytically distinct concepts.
Again, don't get me wrong; I agree that the number of anti-Zionist Jews is vastly outnumbered by the number of Zionist Jews. But there are other anti-Zionist Jews out there; Jewish Voice for People is just one example.
A more interesting example are the anti-Zionist sects among Haredi Jews (e.g., the Satmars). These are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews who oppose the State of Israel (and some of them don't even recognize Israel). I suppose one could argue that the Haredim aren't "real Jews." But the Haredim could—and, from what I understand, often do—just as easily argue that Reform Jews aren't "real Jews."
I listened to this hour-and-a-half-long debate on the proposition "Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism." I felt that the side against the motion was more persuasive (and so did the audience attending in person, by a substantial margin).
https://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/
Much more involved topic than can be covered in a comment thread, but while I agree that anti-Zionism and antisemitism are analytically distinct concepts (i.e., being anti-Zionist -- opposing the right of Jews to self-determination anywhere on the planet -- is not necessarily antisemitic), the overlap in the Venn diagram is very tight (at least as far as anti-Zionists being in the antisemite circle; there are plenty of antisemites who are big Zionists; a topic for a different thread).
IMHO there are very very very few exceptions to the general rule that an anti-Zionist is an antisemite: 1) true John Lennon style imagine there's no country people -- as long as they don't believe Israel should be the first state to disappear on the path to this utopia; 2) as you note, certain (far from all) sects of Haredim (who are most certainly Jews) who have long held -- if severely misguided -- religious views that oppose Jewish sovereignty prior to the appearance of the messiah, and who don't act as props for those who seek to slaughter Jews (i.e., Satmars qualify; neturei karta very much do not); and 3) Palestinians who have suffered directly from the conflict can oppose the existence of Israel without necessarily being antisemitic (though it often comes with a hefty dose of old fashioned antisemitism as well); that said, that position has led to nothing but blood and tears for their people and mine for generations, and so it is very much in their people's interest to accept one of the many offers of statehood that the UN and Israel have made over the past 75 years.
That's it, that's the 3; if someone can describe to me another rationale for opposing the right to self-determination for Jews, and only Jews, that does not boil down to antisemitism, I'm open to hearing it; but having studied and lived this for many decades, I've never heard another example persuasively articulated; those 3 represent a miniscule portion of the overall anti-zionist movement, which is not only filled with antisemites but it is filled with antisemites who have made their appetite for Jewish slaughter quite clear over the last 4.5 months. And JVP does not come close to fitting in any one of those 3 boxes.
Re the debate you linked to, just as I wouldn't recommend watching a debate involving David Duke regarding whether his brand of racism is actually racist, I wouldn't recommend watching Mehdi Hassan describe why his brand of antisemitism isn't actually antisemitic ... but that's just me.
Punchline: yes, there is plenty of room for nuance here, but no, JVP's internalized antisemitism should not be used as cover for others' antisemitism, which is what I believe you did in this post.
For some insights into the ABA's real world impact, check out George Shepherd's piece on the origins of the standards, in "No African-American Lawyers Allowed: The Inefficient Racism of the ABA's Accreditation of Law Schools". https://www.jstor.org/stable/42893789