Free advice for law firm applicants...the day before your interview, or even the day of, or even in the elevator on the way up to the office, or the parking lot before you go in, call reception and see how the receptionist pronounces the firm's name.
Regarding Frenchified (as opposed to French fried) names, at Baker Botts they told me the story of a young lawyer sent by the firm to a rural Texas county — one outside the oil patch — to defend the firm's regular client Schlumberger, named after its founding family in France, and pronounced by them (and by those familiar with them in the oil patch) as "SCHLUM-bur-zhay."
The clerk called their case on the docket, and understandably pronounced it in an Americanized fashion to end with with a hard G to begin its final syllable, and a vocalized R at the end — "ger."
The Baker Botts associate stood and announced his name and readiness on behalf of the firm — but after a glance at his client-representative, ventured to add a correction: "And my client is French, so its name is pronounced 'SCHLUM-bur-zhay.'"
This tickled the trial judge. He started laughing, and laughed himself into breathlessness, after which he said, "Well, however it's pronounced, we're glad to have all y'all here in our courthouse. But you Houston boys will need to stand down for a while. It's nearly noon, and I'm going across the street to the diner to have myself a hamber-zhay!"
I was a partner in the Houston office of Weil, Gotshal & Manges in the early 1990s. During that time I read and heard every possible permutation of how those names could be spelled and said by confused Texans. Within the firm, though, the difficulty outsiders had with the firm name was regarded by most of us, I think, as a perverse point of pride — on the theory that if you're good enough, folks will make the effort to learn it.
When I did M&A work long ago, sometimes working with and sometimes against them, we called the lawyers from Skadden Arps "the Skarps crew." The first time I heard that firm name (some time in law school), I was reminded instantly of the John Irving novel, "The World According to Garp," the first chapter of which was excerpted in Playboy as the origin story of the title character's name. Good stuff still.
Baker Botts, where I began my practice of law, is as easy to say and spell as Sullivan & Cromwell or Thompson & Knight (firms where I also was a summer clerk). Within Baker Botts, we referred to recruiting dinners as being "on the Captain," referring to the grandfather of former SecState James A. Baker III, whose father "Judge Baker" was in turn one of the firm's co-founders. Captain Baker was one of the most famous and successful lawyers in Texas history, not least for proving that William Marsh Rice (the founder of Rice Institute nka Rice University) was murdered in New York City by his butler. But the firm culture was often described simply as "Bottsian," as in "crying after a loss would be un-Bottsian." I liked that.
David, you are enough of a lawyer that it doesn't occur to you that the pronunciation of "Cravath" is not at all intuitive. At least, to me, it came as a surprise the first time I heard it spoken that the accent was on the second syllable.
I remember reading the name when I was first learning about the profession and guessing it was pronounced like "craveth," as in "above all he craveth prestige."
Ha, fair point! It simply wouldn't have occurred to me to include Cravath. Doesn't every baby, upon emerging from the womb, know how to say that hallowed name?
Not to get all Jersey provincial on your post, but how about Lowenstein Sandler? I've actually heard Lowenstein partners pronounce it both Steyn and Steen, though I've always understood Steyn to be correct.
I just called and spoke to receptionists in the New Jersey and New York offices of the firm. They both said, in response to my specific question, that it's LO-win-stine (rhymes with "wine").
When they picked up, I heard them both say LO-win-stine (or LOW-in-stine). But greetings can sometimes be rushed, so I asked them specifically about "stine" versus "steen." Both said "stine"—and one of them added, "Like Frankenstein" (which is a good mnemonic).
For good measure, I sent an email to a friend who is a partner there. But I'm guessing the two receptionists are correct.
Thank you David—as a former French major I had indeed been Frenchifying all relevant firm names in my head. Deh-beh-vwah-zeh for Debevoise, et cetera. Luckily I don’t think I have ever had to pronounce them in a high-pressure situation.
I'm sorry but I just refuse to accept that pronunciation of Faegre. My sincerest apologies to all the former Drinker lawyers that will forever hear me mispronounce Faegre.
Free advice for law firm applicants...the day before your interview, or even the day of, or even in the elevator on the way up to the office, or the parking lot before you go in, call reception and see how the receptionist pronounces the firm's name.
Regarding Frenchified (as opposed to French fried) names, at Baker Botts they told me the story of a young lawyer sent by the firm to a rural Texas county — one outside the oil patch — to defend the firm's regular client Schlumberger, named after its founding family in France, and pronounced by them (and by those familiar with them in the oil patch) as "SCHLUM-bur-zhay."
The clerk called their case on the docket, and understandably pronounced it in an Americanized fashion to end with with a hard G to begin its final syllable, and a vocalized R at the end — "ger."
The Baker Botts associate stood and announced his name and readiness on behalf of the firm — but after a glance at his client-representative, ventured to add a correction: "And my client is French, so its name is pronounced 'SCHLUM-bur-zhay.'"
This tickled the trial judge. He started laughing, and laughed himself into breathlessness, after which he said, "Well, however it's pronounced, we're glad to have all y'all here in our courthouse. But you Houston boys will need to stand down for a while. It's nearly noon, and I'm going across the street to the diner to have myself a hamber-zhay!"
I was a partner in the Houston office of Weil, Gotshal & Manges in the early 1990s. During that time I read and heard every possible permutation of how those names could be spelled and said by confused Texans. Within the firm, though, the difficulty outsiders had with the firm name was regarded by most of us, I think, as a perverse point of pride — on the theory that if you're good enough, folks will make the effort to learn it.
When I did M&A work long ago, sometimes working with and sometimes against them, we called the lawyers from Skadden Arps "the Skarps crew." The first time I heard that firm name (some time in law school), I was reminded instantly of the John Irving novel, "The World According to Garp," the first chapter of which was excerpted in Playboy as the origin story of the title character's name. Good stuff still.
Baker Botts, where I began my practice of law, is as easy to say and spell as Sullivan & Cromwell or Thompson & Knight (firms where I also was a summer clerk). Within Baker Botts, we referred to recruiting dinners as being "on the Captain," referring to the grandfather of former SecState James A. Baker III, whose father "Judge Baker" was in turn one of the firm's co-founders. Captain Baker was one of the most famous and successful lawyers in Texas history, not least for proving that William Marsh Rice (the founder of Rice Institute nka Rice University) was murdered in New York City by his butler. But the firm culture was often described simply as "Bottsian," as in "crying after a loss would be un-Bottsian." I liked that.
David, you are enough of a lawyer that it doesn't occur to you that the pronunciation of "Cravath" is not at all intuitive. At least, to me, it came as a surprise the first time I heard it spoken that the accent was on the second syllable.
I remember reading the name when I was first learning about the profession and guessing it was pronounced like "craveth," as in "above all he craveth prestige."
Ha, fair point! It simply wouldn't have occurred to me to include Cravath. Doesn't every baby, upon emerging from the womb, know how to say that hallowed name?
I should add it. Thanks!
Not to get all Jersey provincial on your post, but how about Lowenstein Sandler? I've actually heard Lowenstein partners pronounce it both Steyn and Steen, though I've always understood Steyn to be correct.
Good question! I have pronounced it both ways, not knowing which is correct.
I just called and spoke to receptionists in the New Jersey and New York offices of the firm. They both said, in response to my specific question, that it's LO-win-stine (rhymes with "wine").
When they picked up, I heard them both say LO-win-stine (or LOW-in-stine). But greetings can sometimes be rushed, so I asked them specifically about "stine" versus "steen." Both said "stine"—and one of them added, "Like Frankenstein" (which is a good mnemonic).
For good measure, I sent an email to a friend who is a partner there. But I'm guessing the two receptionists are correct.
I'm going to investigate!
I know that Rod Rosenstein says it "Stine" (rhymes with "wine") and note "Steen."
https://youtu.be/O5mx8sbhJOA?si=g7eq9_nzk7NXIRbZ
Thank you David—as a former French major I had indeed been Frenchifying all relevant firm names in my head. Deh-beh-vwah-zeh for Debevoise, et cetera. Luckily I don’t think I have ever had to pronounce them in a high-pressure situation.
I'm sorry but I just refuse to accept that pronunciation of Faegre. My sincerest apologies to all the former Drinker lawyers that will forever hear me mispronounce Faegre.
Some others that I either used to wonder about, or in some cases am still not completely sure:
Shearman & Sterling (now A&O Shearman): SHEER-man or SURE-man?
Selendy Gay: SELL-en-dee or se-LEN-dee?
Irell & Manella: uh-RELL or EYE-rell or EE-rell?
Munger Tolles: one syllable ("Tolls") or two (Toll-iss)?
Kobre & Kim: Ko-BRAY, Ko-BREE, or is it more like "Cobra?"
Thanks—these are good ones! I’ll confirm the correctness of what I believe to be the pronunciations, then update accordingly.
Oh and just so I have my requests in one place, I've gotten ones for Dechert, Seyfarth Shaw, and Miller & Chevalier.
Thank you, commenters! I've updated the post to add Cravath Swaine & Moore and Lowenstein Sandler.